On evolving a spirituality

to know and love

In conversation with Lisa Martinez, Doctor of Natural Medicine, on traditional healing and walking the spiritual path by tracing your own steps

Most of us are raised to know our place. Taught how to speak, behave and listen. Less of us learn that our true place is not one that can be designated; that we are the only ones who ought to define how we choose to be. And so most of us wait, obediently, for cues that have been carved by those who came before us, not yet liberated to live in ways we self-define. We are thus parented, educated, governed, and medicated in manners that usually mean well, but in ways that sometimes misalign with our mission. In truth, we all came here to exist in ways that we define alone, together. Supporting one another as, slowly, we remember. ‘Bone by bone, hair by hair, Wild Woman comes back,’ American poet and psychoanalyst Dr Clarissa Pinkola Estés once said. ‘Through night dreams, through events half understood and half remembered, Wild Woman comes back.’

The return is imbued with an ambiguity that is imperative, a fog that softens the fall back into one’s own self. So begins the journey to heal, ascend and grow in body, mind and spirit. The challenge is to meet with our multidimensionality in a world that sometimes fails to see beyond material anatomy. But with each challenge comes an opportunity for courage, a chance to create our own way and to relinquish what feels old. As our ancestors have shown us, we need never journey all alone. The wisdom to be gained from traditional lore remains well-respected among indigenous cultures, and it is this wisdom that penetrates the healing practices of curanderismo. 

Defined as a diverse folk healing system that treats afflictions using a holistic approach, curanderismo embraces the material, spiritual, and mental realms of existence to heal and liberate individuals. As healing for the practitioners as it is for those who seek its care, the curanderismo paradigm is one that empowers us all to participate in the world on our own terms—to raise ourselves so we are strong enough to self-define our place. 

Raised between Colorado and New Mexico, Dr Lisa Martinez is one woman who has experienced the healing and transformative power of curanderismo up close, witnessing—and facilitating—the florescence of its wisdom in herself and others. 

KATHRYN CARTER: You’re a qualified Curanderismo healer, a registered psychotherapist and a doctor of natural medicine. How long have you been practicing and studying these modalities?

DR LISA MARTINEZ: I was raised with the traditions of curanderismo—but my family never gave the practices a name. For us, the practices were simply day-to-day tasks; a way of life that wasn’t considered “extraordinary”.  So to find out that there were individuals who taught curanderismo, and that there were actual initiations into the tradition, was a surprise to me. 

What did it feel like to navigate a path to practising curanderismo more professionally, then, given you were essentially raised by its traditions? 

I opened the doors to my private practice about twelve years ago, and it was hard. At that time opening a practice was not very common. There were of course [still] practitioners, but not like there are now. As for my more formal qualifications, I’ve studied for twenty-seven years. I’ve dived into herbalism, spiritual practices, energy medicine, and magic. The moment my son arrived on the earth I also started to explore folk medicine practices more deeply. He grew up learning right alongside me. 

Your commitment to learning is inspiring. I believe you’re also a psychotherapist?

Yes. The modalities around being a registered psychotherapist I did in the last ten years, I also trained for many years with American poet, psychoanalyst and post-trauma specialist Dr Clarissa Pinkola Estés. In Colorado we’re fortunate enough to be able to submit our credentials to the state for review to allow us to practice as unlicensed psychotherapists. This is a privilege that I’m grateful for, because so much of my work as a curanderismo includes platica which is the heart to heart conversation that happens at the beginning of all of our sessions. 

What an honour it would have been to train with Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés, her novel Women who Run with the Wolves is one of my favourites. Have you had many mentors throughout your journey?

I wouldn’t say I’ve had many mentors, but I’ve had many teachers. With mentors, I believe much deeper, longer-lasting relationships are formed. By that definition, I have only a few. We refer to these individuals as our spirit family, as we belong to each other in a sacred way—they belong to what we’d call the inner circle. In our way, we call this walking together. Our relationship is such that it’s held as sacred, and it’s very protected. I met my first true mentor when I was thirteen and didn’t have another one until I was in my mid-twenties. My most recent mentor came into my life in my mid-thirties, and I’m so blessed to still be walking with her.  

Hearing you speak of your spirit family resonates with me strongly, I feel the same about those who I consider a part of my own soul family. How different is it to learn the art of healing from a mentor, or a member of your spirit family, as opposed to learning from say books or in more traditional classrooms?

It’s incredibly different! Learning from a book or in a traditional classroom leaves out the things you can only learn from sitting with someone who shares their life experiences with you.  Everything we learn is only a concept until a story is applied, and our mentors will tell us it’s only a story until it becomes a personal experience. These stories are what make the concepts tangible, real and relatable so that when we do have our own experience [of the concept] we can look back and feel prepared. The teachings are also often circular in nature, not linear, so they don’t necessarily fall into the perfectly aligned syllabus that gets you from point A to point B. It’s a learning journey that circles and zigzags. The knowledge is buildable, but not necessarily in ways that would be considered traditional. It’s a very indigenous way of teaching and learning. 

I love how you describe the learning as one that circles and zig zags, so beautifully said. I imagine there would also be a lot of hands on training involved to learn the art of curanderismo?
Yes, in curanderismo there is a lot of hands-on work. This work is as healing for the practitioner as it is for the client, so when you have a mentor they can walk with you through your own deeply personal and sometimes difficult healing journey. Whereas, books don’t usually prepare you for the deep processing that might be needed after working on a complex case with an individual. Often, these lessons [that arise after working with someone] can come as a surprise and can be very difficult, but they are also so valuable and necessary. 

It seems as though that aspect of the work you do really has to be lived to be learnt. 

There is nothing but experience that can prepare you for an emotional reaction after a session. Your mentor is there to help guide you through the experience, and to help you to process what may have triggered old wounds so that you can heal and move forward. In a classroom, people can still bond and build relationships, but it’s not always the most appropriate place to release, or to do deeply personal work—not everyone is comfortable enough to open up at that level. Mentors help you to process, sort and apply; they can provide personal examples and experiences to help you understand and grow. It’s a human exchange and experience that can only be had with mentorship.

To be guided in such a way, and to be open to that guidance, sounds like an invaluable part of the path towards becoming a practitioner. 

Yes, mentors keep you clear and focused when you lose sight of your goals or mission. They can also call you out if you act up. For example, if you start to get wrapped up in ego and maybe even get a bit too big for your britches, as they say. It’s important and humbling to be supported that way. 

So true. What was it that first initiated your path to becoming a healer within the realm of traditional and natural medicine? 

My grandmother. She didn’t refer to herself as a curandera, nor did anyone else, but she was. She started teaching me things at a very young age. Simple things, like what certain herbs were used for, both internally and topically. Certain prayers that we said, certain protection work that she taught me, body modalities, places we’d travel, and things she once said. Not everything was explained to me, for some things I was told “that’s just how it’s done”. Those of us who walk a path that is in our family lines don’t usually sit down for class time, the learning is experiential and observational. We learn by witnessing and participating and listening to the kitchen table talk. 

To be raised in the tradition certainly would have allowed so much of your family’s wisdom to be absorbed by your being, both consciously and subconsciously. When you welcomed your own son into this world, did you find yourself raising him in a similar fashion?

I became a mum at a very young age and had very few resources, so I used everything my grandmother taught me on my baby. My desire to nurture his health and spiritual wellbeing became a catalyst for diving deeper into the ways of supporting him. I started to seek answers to questions I didn’t even know I had, and even more often questions that were presented because of his own experiences, dreams or illnesses. My son came into the world very gifted and my goal was to keep these gifts intact as much as I could.

You and your son continue to journey and learn together, using your gifts to help your local community. On a more personal level, what role does spirituality and natural medicine play in your life on a day-to-day basis?

It is my life. From the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed my way of life is all about curanderismo, spirituality and traditional medicine in some form or another.  It has been this way since as far back as I can remember, and I don’t know anything else. This way of life is about supporting and serving the community. It’s also about social activism, and protecting those that need to be protected. It’s about guiding, listening and providing forms of comfort. It’s about showing up when it’s not convenient, it’s about being a person of your word. When you say you will support someone, you do it to the best of your ability.  My world is surrounded by reminders of my practice, beliefs and traditions—everything from what is in my kitchen cabinets, classroom, and office to what is in my shower. I do my best to speak and act with intention and integrity, I try to see others through the eyes of my heart. I don’t do it perfectly, it takes a lot of work. I’m still pretty “hood” as they say. I can still have an attitude, and a potty mouth. 

Well, we wouldn’t be human if we were perfect, nor do I believe we’d be able to relate to those we journey with in this time-space reality. Further to the point of your own personal approach to the work that you do, curanderismo is a healing practice that has existed within Latin America for centuries, with many modern Mexican Americans relying upon the discipline, and its healers, to service their health needs. But I’m keen to hear how you yourself would describe the practice of curanderismo? 

I believe that curanderismo is a complete healthcare system—incorporating body, mind and spirit—as well as a way of life.  I come from the school of thought that also considers curanderismo an indigenous science. In curanderismo, our mental, spiritual and physical health needs to be in a state of balance. If one of those aspects is out of balance, it will cause imbalance in the others. In turn, this has potential effects on our relationships with others, our finances, our physical health and how we perceive and interact with the world around us. It’s also a philosophy. Ancestral knowledge breathes values into our life, it teaches us the cycles that are in tune with nature and the cosmos. These ancestral ways of existence can still be applied to our modern way of life, if we choose. We can bring in ceremonies that acknowledge our young people as they cycle through their personal journey around the sacred calendar of life. We can make decisions based on the stories that teach us how to balance our emotions and thoughts. We can experience life and death and honor each, the same ways our ancestors did. This is curanderismo.

So beautifully put, I too agree that ancestral ways of existence can still be applied to contemporary life, and that these traditions need to be respected. In his article 'Curanderismo and Latino Views of Disease and Curing', published in The Western Journal of Medicine in 1983, scholar Renaldo Maduro, PhD speaks to how the clinical practices of psychotherapy and general medicine frequently overlook the fact that patients from different cultures often hold preconceived ideas and expectations about what constitutes illness, what kind of treatments are effective and correct, and what kinds of health systems are not compatible with their lifestyles. The (often unconscious) beliefs held by certain cultures and individuals surrounding disease causation and cures, thus, often differ greatly from those that prevail in mainstream medicine. Despite his article being published over 30-years ago, it’s safe to say that a strong friction remains between (science-based) allopathic and (more spiritually conscious) traditional disciplines. How do you feel this impacts individuals whose belief systems may be disbelieved or overlooked in times when they need healing? 

I feel deeply there  is a significant impact. This is true not only in physical health but also mental health. This [ongoing] issue creates a huge array of problems, from people not going to see a doctor for any reason—even when facing serious or life-threatening issues—to them withholding information from their doctors out of fear of disbelief. It can, and often does, have a huge detriment to their overall health. For example, something as simple as what herbs a person is taking for a health problem. Patients may use herbs in place of, or in addition to, prescription  medications, which could in turn lead to contraindications, or in some cases no health improvements at all. Herbs are an important part of many cultures, they see plant medicine as life giving, life saving, and in some cases they feel these remedies are their only option. In fact, people from many cultures have no faith in biologics, or they fear they will cause more illnesses. There is also a stigma that if you are taking prescriptions, you are now sick. Sickness is a life sentence that brings shame. If you are taking plant medicine it carries a different belief and a different level of faith.  

Plant medicine and pharmaceuticals are quite different, with regards to their preparations and also how they work with the human body, so the hesitancy of some individuals is understandable. In instances where individuals may need to tend to their spiritual and mental wellbeing, do you observe the same hesitations towards working with the Western system?

When it comes to mental health, patients [from diverse cultural backgrounds] are less likely to be open and honest about depression or anxiety for fear that they will be told that they are crazy, or that they need meds. There is a huge stigma in Latino cultures surrounding talking about your mental state. Patients who hear voices, or who have visions, may be treated as someone who is schizophrenic or suffering from a mental health crisis. However, in many of these cultures hearing voices and seeing things is considered a gift, even for those who are truly mentally ill. Some folks who are truly mentally ill will choose to remain in unstable states over taking medicine, for fear of losing the gift. 

In the past I’ve heard West African elder Malidoma Somé speak to the different ways diverse cultures view one’s ability to hear and see things that are not necessarily of this world. Do you feel that the biological model may, eventually, be able to consider certain issues from more spiritual perspectives?
The information in Renaldo Maduro’s article still holds true to a significant degree thirty years later, I know there are efforts to bring change though. I personally worked with a curandera, Sofia Chavez—author of The Dance of the Flower Medicine—for almost a decade, whose personal divine mission was to bring curanderismo into allopathic care. She developed programs—that I supported her with—to educate doctors and nurses about culturally competent care. Part of the program was designed to help doctors and nurses to understand physical maladies from a spiritual perspective, as well as to show them the benefits and outcomes that can be achieved when patients are supported culturally. Not only did practitioners with this new knowledge see improvement in specific areas like chronic pain, depression, diabetes and high blood pressure, they also saw marked improvement in patients adherence to protocols prescribed by doctors. 

It’s promising to hear that programs such as Chavez’s are making such a difference. 

There have [also] been other curanderas who have made the same efforts. The late Maestra Elena Avila—author of Woman Who Glows in the Dark—was a psychiatric nurse who was well known for her work in the education of doctors and nurses as well. You find that in certain areas of the United States where there are larger populations of Mexicans, Latinos and Hispanics, the allopathic community is more aware of—even when not more willing to consider—the value of culturally supported care. In some areas the relationship between the curanderos/as and doctors is such that they will even refer to each other, this beautiful development still doesn’t occur often enough though. I believe the greatest impact in building the relationship with allopathic medicine needs to start when medical students enter med school, and no later than when they are in their first years of clinical settings.

You’re right, it all comes down to how institutions are training future physicians. One could argue that, at present, biomedical education places its focus too heavily on the physical, anatomical structure of human beings, with no attention paid to the intangible concept of spiritual health.  Conversely, in his book The Folk Healer: The Mexican-American Tradition of Curanderismo, Professor Eliseo (Cheo) Torres states that curanderismo has always embraced three levels. There is the material (the most common, with its emphasis on objects such as candles. oils, herbs), the spiritual (here the curandero is, Torres states, often a medium), and the mental (psychic healers, for example). As a Curanderismo practitioner, why do you feel it’s so important to address each of these levels when we are in need of emotional and/or physical healing?

I absolutely love Dr Cheo! His educational experience at the University of New Mexico is so needed. I’m grateful to have attended his courses as a student and also to have worked as a practitioner at the various fairs he has made available to the public, facilitated so that individuals could receive services by curanderos/as from all over the United States and Mexico. To answer your question, the body, mind and spirit are interconnected. They are independent, but not separate. When one of these areas is out of balance the others will soon follow. We know that when the spiritual body has been affected, the mental and physical can have actual manifestations of illness. There isn’t anything surprising about this, if you experience long periods of stress or emotional disturbance your physical body will ultimately begin to have a variety of issues—high blood pressure, chronic pain, stomach issues etc. 

No surprise at all, research studies have now found that many health problems are related to stress. It makes perfect sense that our spiritual and emotional wellbeing has a direct impact on our physical health. 

Yes, these physical issues in turn can lead to hopelessness and disconnect from the spiritual. So, working with physical objects supports and provides a tangible mental focus, which in turn helps to develop a shift in the mental state, a sense of calm, relaxation, and a potential for hope. This leads to an opportunity to connect with spirit, as we enter a state of peace and quiet, which then allows us to open to receive in ways we couldn’t before, because we were stuck in cycles of anxiety and worry. The physical work—the tangible, the action-oriented—has so much power. 

To be able to feel powerful when we are in states of ill health is, in my mind, so incredibly important.
There is so much that can be said with regards to empowering the patient. A good curandera will teach patients what tools to use to support themselves to create independence, rather than creating a co-dependent relationship [between individual and practitioner]. This is ultimately why all three levels—the material, spiritual and mental—are so important. Instead of being in a constant state of need for services from a curandera, the patient can maintain balance and only seek services on occasion. 

A far more holistic and powerful approach, in my opinion, is to acknowledge and care for the material, spiritual and mental. In mainstream biomedicine, conversely, the acknowledgement of, and tending to, one’s spirit is still often not taken seriously. Do you feel we are, in a sense, doing ourselves an injustice when we fail to take proper care of this core part of our being?

I absolutely feel like we are doing ourselves a huge injustice. The spirit is meant to be vibrant, large, expanding, and interconnected with nature, and to those whom we hold dear. We are meant to feel a zest for life, joy, and purpose. To ignore the spirit is to ignore tending to our sacred fires within our hearts. To silence the spirit is to silence our purpose and ability to move forward to fulfill our divine mission. 

Beautifully said. Do you feel, then, that allopathic medicine would benefit from the integration of more spiritual and traditional therapies, as a more standard part of the current system? 

This is a hard question to answer. Yes, and no. Yes, in that the integration of spiritual and traditional therapies will allow for a more healing space. If spiritual life were more involved, individuals wouldn’t have to leave faith at the door, they would be able to bring it with them to surgery, to recovery, to counseling, and more. 

Individuals could also be more open about sharing how their spirituality influences their life, and there would be freedom of stigmas around so many things, including death and its process. 

Absolutely. I’m interested to hear more about why you think allopathic medicine may not benefit from further integration of spiritual practices?

Well, as we have seen over and over again, the traditions would become sterilized. We may be able to request to do a limpia (spiritual cleansing) in a hospital, much the same way we can ask for a priest, but we could only do it a certain way [to accommodate the restrictions of the system’s structure]. We might also offer something like using meridian points as a healing modality, but only if it’s certain points and using certain tools. Many tools of our practice bring fear, or don’t have what is considered to be a clinical purpose, therefore they are rendered ineffective or “juju”. The moment allopathic medicine gets a hold of traditional medicine practices, there will [inevitably] be guidelines, rules, limitations, and laws. It’s happened over and over again. Look at Chinese medicine or even massage therapy. Curanderas have practiced sobada (massage) and needling since time out of mind but now there are rules. Many curanderas now have to seek out higher education in order to practice under those licenses and certifications, when really they had already been taught how to practice by elders or other healers to begin with. 

I see exactly what you mean, the red tape would really impact the freedom these modalities require to make a meaningful difference, in the ways we know that they can when practiced in an uninhibited way. As you’ve said, practitioners are born with this knowledge, these healing traditions are thousands of years old. In a study published in the Journal of Latina/o Psychology in 2018, entitled The Practice of Curanderismo: A Qualitative Study from the Perspectives of Curandera/os, it is said that Curanderismo practices were passed down through the Aztec’s religious and ritualistic concepts, as well as via their advanced understanding of medicinal modalities, which included the Aztec’s strongly developed use of herbs and plants. Can you tell us more about how Curanderismo practitioners work with the physical offerings of mother nature to heal their clients? 

Mother nature is such a critical aspect of the healing process for patients. In fact, just sitting in nature is critical. For this reason, so many of our healing modalities include nature. Water therapies—hot springs, vapor caves, spiritual baths made with herbs— earth therapies—mud wraps, being buried in the earth—and limpias, which often include the use of plants. We also facilitate healing ceremonies that include the use of herbs and flowers that you rub on the body. To be in nature gives us the opportunity to honour La Madre Tierra, and to change the vibration of our body, mind, and spirit. When our vibration changes it influences our overall health. Nature is where we have learned so many of our healing modalities. 

Can you describe what it’s like to learn from nature? 

We watched the animals in nature throughout time, and they have revealed to us the most magical paths on the mountains, showing us the roads to the sacred waters and to the plants that heal our ailments. Then, the plants speak to us and show us how to use them. Our Mexican ancestors learnt their plant medicine from the plants themselves—they listened and watched. What they knew blows the minds of so many today, because their knowledge was so accurate and science has now proven it so.  

It’s quite incredible what Indigenous cultures have known for so long. Their connections with Mother Earth (and Father Sky) were so strong. Forming an intuitive relationship with nature would also allow for a deeper understanding of the plant remedies you often work with as a curanderisma.
I tell my students what my teachers told me, that it’s better to have a strong relationship with five plants than it is to know very little about many. Building a relationship literally means you talk and listen to the plant. When you do this, the plant itself will share with you the secrets of its abilities, secrets that have never been written about in a book. Plants will do for you what books say that they cannot. If it’s the only plant you have on hand to support someone in a time of need, you can trust that it’s just the right thing.  

Your speaking of the secrets of plants just now makes me think of the mysteries of so many ailments. In much allopathic medical literature so many diseases are labeled as “cause unknown”. In your eyes, is there ever a singular root to illness? 

For chronic illnesses, I’d say that it’s extremely rare that there would be a singular root cause. Sometimes there can be an incident that leads to what we refer to as susto, a form of soul loss that can be described as being very similar to PTSD. Susto can result in sudden illness and, if left untreated, the illness can become more complex, leading to longer-term and more chronic problems. Generally speaking, there are usually many factors to illness—socioeconomic status, ancestral traumas, stress, and genetics. We teach people in our communities that chronic illnesses, and even certain genetic illnesses, can be prevented just by managing stress. 

That philosophy resonates with me strongly. I feel the more we maintain our inner equilibrium the more powerful and well we become. 

Yes, the more boxes you can check when it comes to handling lifestyle and stress, the more likely the chronic illness switch will be flipped. In curanderismo, we know that fibromyalgia, for instance, is a disease that has an emotional root cause. And we know that if your gut health is compromised, your mental health has the potential to be compromised, too. But, the question is always: what caused the initial problem? Did you suffer from anxiety as a child? Have you been in a traumatic relationship? Were you born with influences already in motion that were never addressed? The answer is, it’s complicated. The world would be a different place for many of us if there were only ever a singular root cause. 

So true. Speaking to the management of stress and maintaining a more balanced lifestyle—in a world that can at times appear to be in a state of chaos—what role do you feel spirituality plays in modern life? 

I think it plays a significant role in modern life, but I think it looks very different these days than what it used to. Honestly, I struggle with it sometimes. Spirituality used to be something so personal, but these days it’s taken on a whole different vibe. My grandma was the most Catholic woman I knew, but when I was a little girl she taught me that our church was outside, and that the Creator exists in all things—in the air we breathe and the water we drink. She taught me about the essence of the land and the spirits of the plants. It was spirituality in its simplest form. In those days, spirituality didn’t require that I burned anything, wore certain clothes or proclaimed anything profound, it wasn’t an aesthetic, or the latest trend. That is the spirituality I know and love. 

Beautifully said, Lisa. I feel that spirituality becoming a trend has somewhat diluted its essence. What it means to be spiritual in contemporary society appears to involve as much commerciality as it does true connection. How would you describe the spirituality of today? 

These days,  I often feel sad that spirituality has lost some of its simplicity. I don’t doubt that people aren’t still genuinely spiritual, and I have witnessed individuals who are doing the hard work of discovering the traditional practices of their ancestry. But there is also a part of me that feels as though there is something to be said about spiritual practices that don’t come with all the fluff and social media hype. 

Amen, I so agree. 

There is also this constant undercurrent of being “more woke” or “more spiritual”. I don’t know who is the ultimate measuring authority for what this means, but it’s a thing. People are constantly calling out or defining spirituality. It’s too bad. In truth, it doesn’t take much to be spiritual. It requires nothing more than yourself and your willingness to be open to that which is greater, regardless of who or what it is called. 

Hear, hear. Speaking of trends, over the years practices such as meditation and yoga have taken off in major ways, with centres to participate in group sittings and classes sprouting far and wide. Even so, one could argue that our manic modern way of life leaves a small amount of space for inner work and daily practice, focusing instead on financial gain and the physical body (which is undeniably still important), as opposed to the soul (an element of self that many of us never grow up learning about or paying much mind to). What do you think is to be gained by investing more time and energy in one’s own spiritual health?

Freedom. True freedom. Freedom from the idea that we have to be, do or evolve into something defined by “them”. [When we invest in our spiritual health] we become enough. We recognise we are enough. We don’t depend on outside, often unrealistic confirmations that we are in fact enough. We live in freedom. We live knowing we can overcome obstacles. We breathe, we are at peace. We create and we experience joy and happiness. We are content. 

The freedom that is felt truly is transformative. For those new to incorporating spiritual practice into their reality, where would you suggest beginning when it comes to fostering a healing self-practice?

Start by stepping outside. Put your hands on (and in) the earth, and go to water. Take time to pause. It’s not profound, it’s not complicated, it doesn’t require you to buy anything. Just stop and literally open your eyes to the beauty around you. Everything that holds beauty brings us closer to the next step in our self-practice. Gratitude comes next. Finding gratitude opens the doors to healing. In those moments of pause and gratitude, we begin to feel inspired to do whatever is calling us next. 

To allow oneself to be called to our next step, guided by a force we cannot quite explain, is such a beautiful thing. Do you think it’s possible to truly know one’s whole self without connecting to spirit?

We are spirit. Everything has spirit. To know someone we love is to know their spirit. Whether one recognizes it or not, or believes it or not, our deepest knowing of self and others is to know their spirit. I know that some may argue this. However, I personally can’t wrap my head around the idea that we can truly know our whole self without acknowledging spirit as a part of our being. 

Nor can I. The late American poet Maya Angelou once wrote: ‘We delight in the beauty of the butterfly, but rarely admit the changes it has gone through to achieve that beauty.’ In a world awash with photoshopped projections of perfectionistic ideals, amid environments where many of us grow up with the feeling of never being quite enough, how do you feel we can make the time and space for allowing ourselves to evolve on our own individual imperfect paths—that are not always pretty—on our journeys towards awakening to our inner divinity?

This is a process, a lifelong journey. Having teachers and elders to show us the way is one of the best ways to grow into our true and divine self. Also, surround yourself with likeminded people who support you in your best and worst. They are the ones who remind you of where you have been, and of where you are going. One of my elders also tells me to schedule time for my personal work. It may mean I need to stay up later, or get up earlier, or something of that nature, it may only take  fifteen minutes, but we have to prioritise this time just the same way we would getting groceries or going to a doctor’s appointment. We have to start with knowing we need this time, it’s not something that has to be earned or something that we treat ourselves to. It is imperative, and we must make it a priority. There is always a way through.

We touched on liberty earlier, and how spirituality can empower us on our perpetual paths to becoming the beings we were born to be. How would you describe freedom?

Living without the need to justify our existence. Without the need to prove that we are enough. Without depending on others to validate who we are. Walking in the world without the need to defend our ways of life. And to experience healing that removes the shackles—financial, familial, societal or cultural—that are constantly reapplied, for one reason or another. 

Powerful words. In her novel Women Who Run With the Wolves, American writer and Jungian psychoanalyst Clarissa Pinkola Estés muses: ‘Be wild; that is how to clear the river. The river does not flow in polluted, we manage that. The river does not dry up, we block it. If we want to allow it its freedom, we have to allow our ideational lives to be let loose, to stream, letting anything come, initially censoring nothing. That is creative life. It is made up of divine paradox. To create one must be willing to be stone stupid, to sit upon a throne on top of a jackass and spill rubies from one’s mouth. Then the river will flow, then we can stand in the stream of it raining down.’ Even so, in our world of rigid rules and regulations, of unspoken expectations, and amid the pressures of adhering to the status quo, being at one with, and welcoming of, the chaos within rarely comes naturally. Where do you think these tendencies to tame ourselves stem from? And what advice would you give to someone wanting to overcome them, so as to allow themselves to roar?

In this world, we are constantly being told that we are “too” something—too loud, too big, too extra. Or sometimes, it’s the opposite—we are too quiet, too invisible, too weak. Some of us, for instance, are told to be silent from the time we are children. We are told that we don’t know or don’t have, can’t do or shouldn’t do. Essentially, we are told to conform the moment we arrive on this earth. To overcome this, we have to be brave. We have to take the first steps. We have to be seen, we have to be heard. And we have to do it no matter how scared we are. We have to be seen and heard just as much as we need to breathe in air and take in food. So, write that first poem, paint that first picture, dance your dance. Whatever it is, it must be done. There are so many stories of people who have cried themselves into the freedom of the roar. The first time is always the most painful. After, we have to process the self-doubt and shame that comes from questioning why we allowed ourselves to be seen, and then we do it again. We have to overcome the fear of rejection, because our roar isn’t for “them”. The roar is for us. Whatever you do will most likely influence someone else in a profound way. 

Absolutely, we never know who may be touched by what we bring into this world. But it begins by being brave enough to roar for ourselves first. Speaking of which, in your own words, what does it mean to be strong and well?

For me, being strong and well is a personal definition that can change from moment to moment. But I would say that resilience is one of my primary measuring tools. I sometimes ask myself: how resilient am I?  To be resilient requires both strength and wellness, in my opinion. 

Amen. And what advice would you give to someone who has begun the process of stripping themselves bare of old beliefs to prepare the ground for sowing the seeds of their own self-told narrative?

Be patient, be forgiving. Give yourself grace. Our story is not a destination, it’s a lifelong journey that comes with a lucha—a dance of struggle. Sometimes, we take two steps forward and three steps back, but keep moving forward.. Old wounds are inevitably touched, but we heal through them faster each time. Don’t judge yourself. Go slow when you should go slow, and allow spirit to rocket you when you are rocketed. Don’t question yourself, but do question the world and others. Pause and rest, provide yourself the nourishment you need to regenerate, and remain resilient. We must be able to bend to withstand the storm. When in doubt, take inventory. What work have you already done? How much healing have you already experienced? The only time we look back is to see where we started, so we can celebrate and embrace where we are.

fin.

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